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| Author: | LanceK [ Sun May 07, 2006 9:58 am ] |
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As I was removing the lacqure under the fretboard extention area, it accured to me? Why am I doing this? Because im suspose to? I got to thinking, this area is under constant pressure pushing the fretboard extention down, so why is it we remove the finish? Would it makse sence to glue the extention down to the finish? Is there any reason I shouldnt? Im I over looking something? Thoughts are welcome. 
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:05 am ] |
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Hi Lance, What kind of glue would you use that would stick to the finish, and yet allow disassembly? Dennis |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:13 am ] |
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That is a good question, but i suspect any white glue would work? No? I think the key here is that there is no upward pull on the extention, if it were not for the potentional of vibration I wonder if there even needs to be glue there? |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:22 am ] |
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I know white glue will stick to the surface of Melamine, which was surprising to me, so it might stick to KTM-9 and nitro. How about disassembly? Would it be more likely to get a fingerboard off clean (without bringing up the finish) if the finish has an edge right where the fingerboard starts? Dennis |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:42 am ] |
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Lance I did one without glue. The fretboard bowed down slightly from fretting, so when the neck was installed the top under the extension put upward pressure on the extension keeping it tight. The customer never complained, and when I played it there was no buzz. Al |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:53 am ] |
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Hi! I always wondered about this my self. I think the theory behind scrapping the fingerboard area was for a good porous surface for the glue to adhere to. The finish could fail and weaking the glue bond. But has anyone ever had that problem with the finish? I have experimented on scrap wood with regular wood glue, epoxy and gorila glue. All 3 held up well with a strong bond. The best was the gorila glue. When I broke the joints apart the the gorila bond held so well that it took a lot of wood with it from the laquered board. The others broke apart cleaner with less splinters but still had to be wacked off with a hammer to get them to snap off.They still took some wood from the finished scrap. I used a piece of 1x6 cedar that I laquered and wet sanded to 600 grit and 2x2x2 scraps of honduran rosewood I got from a friend who does turnings. |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:58 am ] |
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[QUOTE=DennisLeahy] I know white glue will stick to the surface of Melamine, which was surprising to me, so it might stick to KTM-9 and nitro. How about disassembly? Would it be more likely to get a fingerboard off clean (without bringing up the finish) if the finish has an edge right where the fingerboard starts? Dennis[/QUOTE] My thoughts too.....ease of future disassembly an issue with this joint. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun May 07, 2006 2:03 pm ] |
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Now you've got me thinking... Why do we do SS guitars the way we do? In a classical you attach the neck and bridge, get it just right then apply the finish. Why do a SS in pieces? Finish the body & neck separatly, no finish on the bridge. Is there a reason or is it just tradition? |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Sun May 07, 2006 8:12 pm ] |
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Because it's a lot easier to polish and buff the neck and body seperately, no pesky edges all over the place? High-gloss finish on a guitar with a bridge and neck in place just sounds unnecessarily complex. It's not like removing the finish before gluing down a bridge or fingerboard extension is a huge amount of work... As for the other issue, gluing straight to finish, it may not be the wisest of ideas, but I've seen reports that a good number of low-end Asian imports have bridges superglued directly to the Poly finishes... |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Sun May 07, 2006 8:23 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] As for the other issue, gluing straight to finish, it may not be the wisest of ideas, but I've seen reports that a good number of low-end Asian imports have bridges superglued directly to the Poly finishes...[/QUOTE] Mattia, I thought that this is what Rick Turner does after seeing Larrive do it too. I wouldn't call them low-end  |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Sun May 07, 2006 8:40 pm ] |
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Ah, does he? Heh. OK, never mind. I do know low-end guitars ALSO do it. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Sun May 07, 2006 9:23 pm ] |
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Why scrape of all the finish under the neck if you do insist on gluing it down. Just scrape a half inch or so down the centre and just glue that bit, also has the advantage of allowing the top to move with humidity and preventing those annoying cracks alongside the fingerboard extensionthat can happen. Colin |
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| Author: | Matt Gage [ Sun May 07, 2006 10:00 pm ] |
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I would think that the finerboard is stiffer against setting into too much relife when it is glued down. if you glue to the finish, then the glue bond is only as good as the finsh bond to the wood, which aint that good. I go with tradition on this one, because it only takes a few mins to scrape back the finish. |
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| Author: | paul harrell [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:31 pm ] |
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I'm with Colin, I just glue the center of the fingerboard extension. I put a piece of 5/8 tape in the center when I'm applying finish, and that's the only part I glue, for the same reasons Colin mentioned. Paul Harrell |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon May 08, 2006 12:08 am ] |
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I like the idea of just using a small strip down the center, but how do you get wood to wood contact? OR dont you? Do you depend on the glue to fill the gap? Thanks |
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| Author: | paul harrell [ Mon May 08, 2006 12:35 am ] |
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Lance, I do scrape the finish between the center strip I'm going to glue and the edge of the fingerboard extension. I don,t try to get all the finish off, just enough to make sure I will get good contact in the middle for the glue joint. Only takes a minute. Paul |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 08, 2006 12:51 am ] |
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Lance, add a 1/64" by 1/2 wide laminate down the center of the extension (I had the same question after Collin's post) |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon May 08, 2006 1:02 am ] |
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Lance, add a 1/64" by 1/2 wide laminate down the center of the extension (I had the same question after Collin's post)[/QUOTE] So a kind of gap fill? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 08, 2006 1:29 am ] |
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YEP. To be really precise measure the difference between the finish level and the scrape back. Subtract about .002 and that is your laminate thickness. The fretboard extension will fit flush and tight to the film and the laminate will fit flush to the bare top.. The only problem is thinning the laminate to required thickness |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon May 08, 2006 1:33 am ] |
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I think I may be trying out John Kinnairds neck join on my next few, I know its a great joint, and it would certainly remove the need to remove the lacqure so closely to the fretboards edge. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 08, 2006 1:37 am ] |
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Thats where I am gong as well. |
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